Richard Self

Interview With Richard Self

SBS:  Welcome to our pages!  Whether you’ve been here with us in some way before, or you’re brand-new to the site, it’s probably best to get an introduction from you so that we get everyone on the same page to start.  Tell us a little bit about the history of your music, and what’s happening with it lately!?!

Richard:  Goodness me, well where to begin.  I’ve been writing, recording and performing in various projects since around 2004.  It started with a project called Don’t Die Foolish, with a couple of friends.  I would write the music and pass it on to the lead singer who would write the lyrics.  When that band ran its course I decided to try fronting a band myself and formed a 5 piece rock band called Runciter, after 1 album (Billy no mates), a lot of gigs and a tiny bit of industry interest that eventually ran its course.  I decided after that to just make music for myself.  Over that 20 years I’ve made a dozen or so albums and EP’s, some with others, most of it on my own.  I occasionally play live; it’s quite a lot of fun.  About 10 years ago I came up with the idea for Lives of the Ignorant, a sort of space James Bond story, going from Earth to who knows where.  I’m currently trying to finish off part 3.  I’ve come to the conclusion that because I’m really the only person that listens to my music I might as well make it exactly as I want.  It’s been quite liberating, gaining the confidence to not care whether or not people get it means I can go as nuts as I want.  Each new chapter of the project feels like an improvement on the one before.  The latest set feels like my most ambitious yet in terms of both storytelling and production.  It’s basically mental.

SBS:  Let’s talk about the before and after of where you’re currently at.  What’s something about the music that you’re making now that you don’t think you could have done five years ago, and what’s something you think you’ll be able to do with your music five years from now that you can’t do today?  How have you grown as an artist/band, and what steps do you take to continue your artistic evolution?

Richard:  Five years ago I was living in the UK really struggling with the mixing side of my music as well as trying to take each song as far as it could go.  I then got the opportunity to leave the UK and work in China, right in the middle of Covid.  It basically gave me the opportunity to focus on the music without the myriad of distractions that get in the way and I was able to get a load of really talented people involved.  Working with other people makes me up my game in terms of songwriting.  Every new project, for me at least, is a chance to improve in some area.  It may be in terms of guitar playing, or harmonies or having the guts to sound like an idiot.  I’m constantly inspired by new music, trying to work out what they’ve done, little bits here and there that make me stop what I’m doing and pay attention, there’s always something.  When you’re the only one to please you can try anything you like, it’s quite freeing.  In 5 years I’d quite like to have finished Lives of the Ignorant and be deep into the next project (which I already know the theme and sort of story).

SBS:  If you were to assess the overall health of the independent music scene right now, what would you say?  What are the positives and the negatives about the current state of independent music, and what do you feel like artists & bands can do to contribute to the community & help it grow beyond the music being made?  If you’re not actively looking to listen to the music of other independent artists/bands, is it really all that fair to expect anyone would listen to yours?  How do you help the scene around you grow?

Richard:  There’s a lot of music out there, the introduction of cheap DAW’s and virtual instruments has meant that the bedroom producer can create radio friendly music where it used to be the reserve of those with money or a record deal.  The problem comes in accessing the music, there’s gatekeeping now, just as there was back then.  If you want to get heard you probably need some money behind you so you can pay the right people to get on the right playlist and so on.  Not really any different from 20 years ago, there’s just a lot more of it.  I would argue that it’s harder to find any music outside of the mainstream that you like simply because it’s like trying to find a very specific needle in a stack of needles.  All I can do is plug my own lonely little furrow and get people involved that wouldn’t normally get involved in this kind of thing.  As for listening to other artists’ music, I do my best, there are a number of independent artists I listen to, but I find finding new music and bands that I like really difficult.  I’m a picky sod when it comes to what grabs me, and even worse it could be any kind of music or genre.  For example my 2 favourite albums from last year were Imaginal Disk by Magdelena Bay and Absolute Elsewhere by Blood Incantation.  I suppose the only thing linking them is ambition.  I try to get involved with local musicians where I can, I’m currently in Cairo and have been working with a couple of local artists, whether that result will ever see the light of day remains to be seen.

SBS:  What do you consider to be the biggest accomplishment or achievement you’ve had with your music to-date?  How do you personally measure your own success – is that something that even can be measured?  Is it awards, accolades, chart position…or is your definition of success based on something entirely different?  Should success, however you define it, be something that artists are continually focused on – or is success something that naturally occurs in the course of doing what you love to do?

Richard:  If I manage to get Lives of the Ignorant finished to the level I want I will consider that to be a massive achievement.  The main aim when I started was to make music that wouldn’t sound out of place on the radio next all the rest.  I don’t make music with accolades in mind, who really does that?  Although getting on the SBS end of year list was a lovely surprise and one I only stumbled upon via accident.

I can only really judge my own music through time.  When I’m in the middle of a project any songs that are part of that set are usually the best songs I’ve got at that moment.  Once the project is done only after a year or so can I go back and listen to it objectively.  Could it be mixed better?  Could I have sang that a bit better?  Is that the best lyric I could have come up with?  I’m usually hyper critical of the mix.  All of those questions I’m asking in the first year of it being released.  After that there are songs that I listen to and can’t quite believe I made.  It’s very satisfying.

SBS:  When you’re working on something brand-new, and something about it just doesn’t feel like it’s coming together the way that you think it should, how do you know when it’s time to give up on it, or how do you know that it’s time to dig in even harder and find a way to make it work?  Are there distinct red flags you can hear when something’s not working?  What are the signs you look for that tell you to stop forcing the material?  What would actually encourage you to keep going with the process instead?

Richard:  So when I’m not focused on a particular project, what I tend to do is make a lot of musical doodles.  When I decide to start a new project I’ll go through my half ideas and see which ones I think I can turn into something.  Then I work out which flow best from a music point of view.  I usually start with about 100 or so little half ideas and over a period of time I’ll move them to a new project folder.  From there, they’ll be whittled down even further.  Once I’ve got about 15 or so I’ll try to get each one structured to what I think works best from a music point of view.  From there I’ll work out the lyrics and decide if I need a guest vocal or not.  From there it’s record, mix, refine.  When I think it’s done I’ll play to death to find out where all the problems are and iron them out.

If a track makes it to the final stage it only becomes a chore if it’s not what I thought it was going to be.  I found that if I just plug away and do the work, it might be that a vocal isn’t sitting right, or a verse sounds a bit empty, it gets there in the end.  If I find there’s a gap in an album where a specific kind of song is needed, I’ll just write a new one and see if it fits.  If I’ve recorded vocals on it I’ll finish the track to see if it’s going to work, if it doesn’t work for that set I’ll hang on to it for the next one in case it works there.

I’ll give you an example on the last album I worked on, I had a song ready for a particular slot on the album, but it wasn’t quite working.  The track was finished mixed and ready to go, but it did not fit from a musical point of view.  I decided to write another song with a mood that fitted better, did some new lyrics on the same sort theme and turned it into a duet.  It was what the project needed and worked really well.  The old song was put in the B-sides folder, I couldn’t see how it could work on any other project so there it went.  I can give countless examples like this, if I think it’s not working I’ll keep plugging away till I think the song is finished and see from there.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.  The trick I find is to not get too frustrated, the more you write, the more good stuff you’ll have.

SBS:  One of the points of general consensus in the art of making music, is that we all get our sound from somewhere…we hear what we like, then more often than not, we take tiny pieces of what we love to find our own voice & approach to go on and make music in our own way.  Essentially, what I’m saying is that it’s absolutely natural to be inspired by other artists/bands, and almost every artist/band ends up having that inspiration show up in their own work in some way, shape, or form.  What the real key is though, is retaining your own organic perspective – you still wanna be original too, right?  So how do you go about doing that?  Are there artists or bands that you know have been an influence on your style & sound?  How were you able to incorporate that influence without becoming too noticeably derivative and still be yourself?  Should we embrace and celebrate our influences more than we do?  It’s almost like we try not to admit influences exist in the pursuit of being original, but it’s like, bruh…if it’s there, we can hear it.  We all borrow something from those that came before us to some extent, don’t we?

Richard:  There are loads of bands that have influenced me over the years.  I remember years ago having a conversation with an old friend about who I wanted to sound like and it was always New Order’s synths, Simple Minds guitars and Martin Fry’s lyrics.  Over the years loads of other bands have crept their way in, it could just be one little phrase I use, or in other cases whole albums I’ll try distill into one sound or song.

I’ll give you an example, on the last project I did there was a song called “Love Again,” that started after I’d listened to a particular Miley Cyrus song.  I’d played it through once or twice during the week and decided I wanted to have a go at writing a song in that style.  By the time the weekend came around the only thing I could remember was that it was in D minor and after that it became its own thing.  The more I worked on it the more it started to sound a little bit like an old Beloved song, so in a sort of tribute I stuck in a sax solo.  All seemed fit quite nicely.

I’m always stealing something, but once it’s passed through my brain with all of the other influences it becomes its own thing.  I can pretty much pinpoint where most of the ideas come from, I’ve never tried to hide my influences, I’ve got so many of them that they inevitably influence the initial idea.  I may start out with a half remembered bass line from an obscure metal band, but by the time I’ve added the 303 baseline, the huge guitars and all of Anne Dudley’s best string arrangements it’s become its own thing.  It’s just music, I defy any musician who says that nothing influenced them; it’s simply not true.  You write what you write; it’s only new if you don’t recognise the influences.  I’m not a Springsteen fan by any means, but you can hear his influence all over a couple tracks on the new album.  I’m not going to deny it, but by the time I’ve done my usual tricks it sounds like me.  I’m not claiming Born in the USA as all my own work and neither should anyone else, apart from Bruce obviously.

SBS:  Has there ever been a time where you wrote something inside one of your songs…maybe it’s a lyrical line, or maybe it’s a riff of some kind…something that you did, where you surprised yourself?  I like to think we all have a moment or two where we can stand back and be amazed by something we created, and appreciate the fact that maybe, just maybe, we exceeded our own expectations of what we thought we could accomplish – you know what I mean?  Get as specific as you can so the fans out there know what they should be paying attention to when they hear it – what’s your favorite thing that you’ve written on the inside of one of your songs, and why does this particular piece resonate so much to you?

Richard:  I’m just going to rattle off a load of examples now, and to be fair you did ask for this.

As a finished product “Messier 42” took me by surprise, it took me about 3 years on and off to get all the guitars and synths to sink, but it was worth it.

The line from “More Holidays” – “We drink a bottle or 4 with the sands of time” – a reference to a holiday where me and my friend played Prince of Persia every night before going to bed.

The chant in “Skybound and Happy.”

The whole song I wrote called “Ladbrookes,” but in particular the line “You shouldn’t listen to me my son, I still live with my mom.”

I always spend a lot of time programming drums and try to make it so that although it’s complex, it’s all playable by a drummer if they’re good enough.

The guitar solo from the track “Lives of the Ignorant” (2 notes layered of 3 harmonies).

The lyrics for a song on the new set from a song called “Why do they have to die?”  It’s basically 2 gods arguing for and against all of humanity.

I find when I listen to any of the love songs I’ve written I’m surprised at how genuine it all sounds and how I was able to be that honest.  Writing about stuff when you’re miserable is easy, having something interesting to say on the happy stuff is much harder.

I did warn you and you did ask.

SBS:  I’ve been having a lot of great debates lately about whether or not everybody that’s making music has the right to be heard…and you’d probably be surprised by how different people seem to feel about this issue.  I know where I stand on it, and I think you can all probably get an idea of what my position would be from this free interview we’re doing here & the way we run things at sleepingbagstudios…but regardless, I’m putting this question out there to you, because I’m interested in YOUR perspective.  Just because you’ve made a song, does that mean people should listen?  If your answer is yes, do your best to explain why you feel that way & why we should make a sincere effort to listen to the music of others.  If your answer is no, explain why you feel that way, but also explain why people should still be listening to your music if that’s the case – what would make your music the exception, and not follow the rule?  Is there any value to an idea that’s not finished, or a song in its demo stages, or maybe something that’s not recorded in a top-shelf studio or with good equipment – somebody still took the time to make that song to the best of their ability with the means they had to create it – should that be listened to, or not?

Richard:  No I don’t think it does.  I’m not interested in any music that someone has made without any perceivable care.  If that song is in its best version and you couldn’t make it any better, then I’ll give it a go.  If someone can’t be bothered to put the effort into making a song the best it can be, why should I put the effort into listening to it?  I did a compilation of b-sides last year and there was no way I was going to release them in the state they were in.  Some of them needed wholesale re-recording, new vocals, guitar/synth/bass/drum parts put in, and it took me about 2 – 3 months to get them to the best version they could be.

Now I have done projects when I’ve given myself a week for a song to get it ready, you will find very few of those to listen to as I’m not happy with them at the moment.  They need more time.  Demos are an interesting extra, but they’re demos for a reason, some people like to see how the process goes.  I recently listened to the anniversary edition of New Order’s Power, Corruption & Lies deluxe version with all the demo versions.  I got through about 2 of them then skipped the rest.  Don’t need to hear 5 minutes of the sequenced drums and bass from “Age of Consent.”

SBS:  There are ups and downs in the dynamics of almost every album we listen to, with very few exceptions.  Even those exceptions, probably still come down to more of a personal preference about what we enjoy about music and how we personally hear it, rather than anything being completely and totally “perfect” – you know what I mean?  Does an album actually need to have some kind of up/down dynamics in terms of what’s appealing to the masses in order for the best of the best songs in a lineup to be fully appreciated?  Wouldn’t every artist & band avoid the ‘down’ side (less accessible/less popular for example) if they could?  Does the ‘down’ side represent something else perhaps, like the story of an album or journey of an artist?  Is the ‘up’ side of a record as potent or noticeable if it doesn’t have a ‘down’ side to go with it?  Would a completely balanced album somehow be boring if it didn’t have the ups/downs that most have?  Do we HAVE to like every single song on a record for it to be considered complete?  Are the dynamics of an album something anyone can really steer in the direction they want to, or are all artists & bands simply going with the strongest material they have created at the time?

Richard:  First off, if your album’s boring, that’s the song’s fault, not the sequencing.  I love albums as a thing that has been designed to be listened to in one go.  Whenever I make an album, even a b-sides one, there is a lot of thought into the sequence of the songs.  For me it’s purely musical, I can’t put 4 fast songs together, that 4th one’s got to be moved somewhere else.  I don’t know if it’s true, but there’s the story that the last song on each side of a vinyl album would nearly always be a ballad or slow song as the tightness of the grooves on the disk meant it couldn’t handle low frequencies.  As a result albums were sequenced in a particular way.  When CD’s came along artists were no longer constrained by the 40ish minute run time of vinyl or the diminishing frequency response.  So when music was making an impression on me the way in which tracks were ordered almost ingrained itself into my psyche over a number of years.

The advent of streaming meant that you could release as much as you wanted.  I’ve had examples where I’ve had 2 songs of a similar tempo that were both excellent and had to choose between them because they both don’t fit on the album.  I always believed that any album designed to be listened to in one go should be no longer than around 50 minutes.  I’ve done some longer and some shorter, this always seems optimal for me.  There’s plenty of good examples knocking around.  I can give you two examples of sequencing having an issue on a particular record, both by bands I love.

1. ABC – The Lexicon of Love.  Each song is perfect and the sequencing works perfectly even to the final orchestral coda.
2. The 1975 – Notes on a Conditional Form.  22 tracks with no real thought as to what follows or comes before, the result is a ten track excellent album buried in a pile of bland instrumentals.

SBS:  I wanna send out a shout-out to YOU from me personally – I appreciate everyone that has taken the time to talk tunes with me throughout the years, and I appreciate the time YOU have taken with this interview too.  Because this one’s a little different in the sense that it’s been sent out to multiple people and is a little more generic in that regard, I have no doubt whatsoever that we probably didn’t get to talk to you about something you wanted to talk about – so let’s fix that!  This final space is what we call the SBS Open Floor – a spot where you can say anything else you want to say to the people out there.  It can be anything at all…your main websites…something else you want them to know about you and/or your music…your favorite bands in the scene right now…the secret 11 herbs and spices to the Colonel’s secret recipe – you get the idea, and it’s probably best you choose something that suits you rather than take any of my suggestions, but feel free to take the SBS Open Floor for a ride.  Whatever it is you want the people to know, now is the prime time for you to tell’em!  Thanks again for everything – keep in touch!

Richard:  Last year was a cracking year for music; I’m always on the lookout for something new.  An album that I can’t stop playing at the moment is Magdalena Bay’s Imaginal Disk, what a work of imagination, ambition and straight up brilliant songwriting, best thing I’ve heard in years.  Others are the album Poetry by Dhed, a really good melodic US indie band, UK’s very own Lambrini Girls, I’m a sucker for sweary, funny Punk music.  Forever by Charly Bliss, really good Pop album, Remi Wolf’s Big Ideas is cracking, as is The Struts Pretty Vicious for good time Rock N’ Roll, King Buffalo’s Regenerator is a really good melodic Prog Rock, Alan Palomo’s World of Hassle is a cracking listen.  There’s plenty to listen to.  I don’t believe that there’s ever been a golden age of music; I’m a big believer that the best time for music is always tomorrow.

If you’ve got this far come over to my house at:  https://www.richardself.co.uk/

Bandcamp here:  https://richardself.bandcamp.com/

I’m on Spotify here:  https://open.spotify.com/artist/0Hl9b9gJ5sKJNkWGzfHmHT/discography/all

Apple music here:  https://music.apple.com/us/artist/richard-self/1264439287

Amazon music here:  https://music.amazon.com/artists/B0749MBQ9M/richard-self

Lives of the Ignorant Part 3 is well underway, I’m hoping by the end of the year it may be done, but probably best not hold your breath.

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