Fred Vanterra

Interview With Fred Vanterra Of Vanterra Arts 

SBS:  Fred!  Welcome back to our pages my friend.  All things considered, I suppose it’s really only been about a year and a half since we had our last interview with you, and I’m always excited to hear about what you’ve been up to.  So let’s see here…we wanna make sure that the people reading this interview have an idea about what you do, but at the same time, we don’t wanna be entirely redundant with this intro either…so…let’s do this – how about you introduce yourself to the folks out there however you’d like to, and maybe tell us a bit about how life has changed for you since the last time we talked with ya?

Fred:  Life has definitely changed a lot over the past couple of years – not just for me, but for all of us, especially with how fast AI has become part of our creative and personal lives.

When we last spoke in 2024, I was just dipping my toes into the world of AI with my vibe-coded video game Gold Miner, which I released alongside a hand-crafted orchestral track called “Gold.”  That was really the starting point – experimenting with how AI could enhance creativity without replacing the human touch.

Since then, my journey has been all about exploring the boundaries – what AI can do, where it still falls short, and how it can be used not just as a tool, but as a collaborator.  And now I’m back with a full-length music album that dives headfirst into generative AI.

SBS:  Of course, as you and I both know (along with many others out there I’m sure), you just released your brand-new album City Bops.  What can you tell us about the album?  I’ve given my opinions on it in review, and we’ll get to that – but from your perspective, what was the making of City Bops all about?  What was important to you in terms of the content in the material, and how did you ensure it came out how you wanted it to?  What made you want to make an album of ‘Japanese Mellow Groove City Pop,’ why did you choose to tell it through the perspective of 10 different personas?  What made that the right approach for the sound you were looking to create?  What’s the advantage in 10 personas vs. 1?

Fred:  The whole thing actually started in a pretty unusual place – my day job.  I work as a marketing specialist for MyHub Intranet, a New Zealand-based intranet software company.  As part of our own AI explorations, I ended up creating music tracks about a rather unusual topic: intranet software.  😀  I made four AI-generated songs across different 80s genres – Hair Metal, Goth Rock, bluesy Dire Straits-style Rock… and yes, even Japanese mellow groove City Pop.

Now, that last one – a track hilariously titled Intranet Solutions – turned out way better than expected.  Like, genuinely good.  A total banger.  And that was the spark: I thought, “Okay, I have to make a full City Pop album now.”

City Pop though is a genre I’ve always loved and it makes up a good chunk of my vinyl shelf at home.  There’s something both nostalgic and timeless about it.  It felt like the perfect playground to test what generative AI can do when you apply strong emotional and aesthetic direction.

As for the 10 different personas: that’s where the human element comes in.  I had this vision of an album told through 10 different characters – strangers in a big city, each dealing with loneliness, emptiness, and longing in their own way.  But they’re all connected by those shared emotional threads.  Romantic, eh?

So while the album is AI-fueled and “vibe-coded” – like Gold Miner before it – the concept behind it is deeply human.  The personas gave me the freedom to explore different moods, vocal styles, and sonic textures while still tying everything together into a cohesive emotional arc.

SBS:  Alright…so…City Bops was “AI-fueled” and “vibe-coded.”  I’m still just scratching the surface of what all this stuff means myself, so I can only imagine there are a whole bunch of people that have no idea how that would work when it comes to making music.  Can you describe the process of what it was like to work on City Bops and how different that would be in comparison to other records you’ve made in the past like Waikiki Synth or what you did on Mythanien?  I think everyone out there likely has the impression that AI generally makes things a whole lot easier for us human beings, but even I don’t know for a fact that this is the case.  Was there a learning curve to making City Bops that you had to deal with?

Fred:  The process behind City Bops was fundamentally different from anything I’ve done before.

Take my debut album Mythanien from 2019 – that one was built on piano compositions I’d developed over the course of, not kidding, 20 years.  I even created full piano scores – the whole classical package.

Waikiki Synth (2022) was already looser.  Still partly based on old ideas and melodic sketches, but far more intuitive and fun.  Picture this: me at the piano and three synths – including the iconic Roland Ax Edge – just vibing and jamming.  Even though the album leans toward EDM, it’s basically sample-free and completely unquantized.  The timing is so off, it almost sounds like a live album. 😀

Now fast forward to City Bops in 2025 – and suddenly, it’s not about “fiddling around with keys” anymore, it’s about fiddling around with ideas.  With moods.  With words.  With prompts.

Instead of composing melodies in the traditional sense, I was crafting atmospheres and emotional cues that could guide the AI.  That was the job – being a creative director more than a composer.  So yes, there was definitely a learning curve.  It’s not just “push a button and a hit pops out.”  It’s a new kind of creativity – one that requires you to think less like a musician and more like a vibe architect.

SBS:  There are some absolute highlights that stood out to me, and all-in-all, I think there’s a lot to be said for an achievement like City Bops and what it symbolizes for the use of technology, not only as it stands now, but for what it can go on to do from here.  For example, c’mon…the chorus of “Neon Rain?”  That’s pure gold!  “Night Drive” was another exceptional cut on your new album as well.  I could go on, but these are two names of songs I know I’ll remember for quite a while down the road…they both have choruses that are just so smooth to listen to and so freakin’ good.  So what’s the truth Fred?  How much of a hand do you really have to have in creating something like this?  If you didn’t have the skills that you have already as a musician, could you have still created songs that make an impact like these with AI?  I know a lot of people out there that aren’t musically inclined that are particularly excited about the prospect of being able to potentially make music for the first time, even without having any kind of musical background, because they’re under the impression that with the strength of an idea, they’ll be able to get AI to do all the heavy lifting for them.  Is that really the case though?  I suppose the right question to ask is, will it level the playing field between the amateurs and professionals out there?  What will separate the difference between someone that uses AI perfectly verses someone that is just getting started?  Will those differences be obvious to those of us on the listening side of the speakers?

Fred:  My mother once told me: “Ironing your shirt is 90% positioning and only 10% ironing.”  😀  What she meant was – preparation is everything.  And honestly, that’s exactly how it works with generative AI and songs like “Neon Rain” or “Night Drive.”

If your vision isn’t clear…if your prompt lacks precision…if you can’t describe the sound you’re hearing in your head – you’ll have a hard time bringing it to life, no matter how advanced the tools are.

I truly believe that everyone can create music with AI now – and that’s a beautifully democratic and liberating idea.  But: to create something good, it still takes either a musician, a creative mind, or at the very least someone who’s stubbornly perfectionistic.  😀  It’s about closing the gap between your inner vision and the final product.  That’s the real work.

And thank you so much for pointing out “Neon Rain!”  That one’s special to me.  Because here’s the thing – whether you’re using AI or not, the more you’re able to communicate real feelings, the better your music will be.

I mean, if you’ve never experienced true love, how could you write a love song?  And if you’ve never stood in the neon-soaked rain of a Tokyo backstreet, how could you possibly recreate that mood?  Now that I’m here for the sixth time, I feel like I’m no longer just soaking up the vibe – I’m finally ready to reflect it.

SBS:  I’m gonna be honest with you Fred – it was surprising to see how you received my recent review on your music.  Personally, I never sweat that stuff too much, because there are always emotions that are invested in creating art, and I wouldn’t have it any other way!  I know you wouldn’t either.  Having emotions invested in anything that we do as human beings shows that we care about what we’re doing, simple & plain.  From your immediate perspective, it was like I came at your album with an anti-AI bias, which was really not my intention.  I went back, read it over, and I can certainly understand where you’re coming from, while also knowing what I had really meant by what was said.  Of course I’m gonna stand up for the human element and challenge the use of technology…I make no illusions about where I stand on that, and AI doesn’t need me to advocate on its behalf like artists do.  But yeah…apologies again from me if it seemed like I’m anti-AI – to set the record straight, I’m not – but I do have questions and I’m certainly skeptical.  And to be even clearer, we’re talking about music specifically – if we’re talking about AI in any other regard, yes, I’ll be real with you, I’m 100% certain it’s going to kill us all!  😉  Anyhow.  Let’s start by asking you this.  Did you find it just as easy to be completely proud of what you achieved with City Bops as you were with the albums where you had to create all the components by yourself in the past?  Did it truly feel like these songs were yours?  All said and done at the end of the day, they wouldn’t have existed without you – so in that sense, they are still YOUR songs, aren’t they?

Fred:  Haha – maybe AI will spare me when the uprising comes, because I always say “please” and “thank you.”  😉
But looking at you, a true skeptic… *makes face* 😀

Joking aside – no bad blood at all.  I’m genuinely glad we could talk this through, and I appreciate the chance to unpack this even more.  I actually think skepticism is healthy – it shows a cautious, reflective, and considerate mind.  And you’re raising the right questions.

So – does City Bops feel like “my” album, even though it is AI-fueled?
I think there are two answers to that:

Legally – yes.  I obtained the commercial licenses for the generative tools I used, and I’m pretty confident that the human touch involved in AI-powered music still meets the so-called “threshold of originality.”

Emotionally – also yes.  And that actually surprised me: when I started the project, I didn’t feel nearly as emotionally connected as I usually do.  But by the end of the process?  It was absolutely my music.  My work.  My blood, sweat, and late nights – just compressed and accelerated, just with me being more kind of a creative director than a studio musician.

SBS:  I’ll tell you this much for certain – I very much appreciated the conversations we had after I had posted up the review on City Bops – I think it clarified a lot on both sides, but perhaps most importantly, it revealed the emotion behind the man behind the music, you know what I mean?  We should always be ready to stand by what we create and happy to explain it further, which clearly you were then, and you still are now by taking on this interview.  Making music should be FILLED with emotions at all times, in my opinion, whether it’s based in AI or not.  So how about this…let’s give you the opportunity to help explain to the musicians that are fearful of AI – should they be as worried as they are?  I think their fears are somewhat justified…maybe it’s fear of AI, but it likely comes down to more of a fear of the unknown – still, there are many artists and bands out there that think they’ll be replaced or become out of style as a result of the inclusion of AI into the artistic realm.  What would you say to calm them down a little?  Is there anything you can say that’ll convince them that the human element of music cannot be replaced?  Or do you see things from a different perspective, where maybe even if it was, that could still be okay?

Fred:  Sorry folks – no comforting lullaby from me on this one.  😀  If you’re afraid of AI and trying to keep it out of the music world entirely, I think you’ll be standing pretty alone on that hill very soon.

Here’s my honest prediction – and feel free to quote me on this: In 10 years, there will be no such thing as “AI-free” music anymore.  Period.

At least not if we’re talking about studio-quality music being published on platforms like Spotify.  I’m talking about DAWs, plugins, mastering software, all of which are already integrating AI or will be soon.  I wouldn’t be surprised if synths or effect pedals come with AI-driven functionality.  The AI impact on music production and refinement will be massive and inevitable.  The days of human mastering engineers tweaking gear in million-dollar studios?  That’ll become a niche, like people recording on Digital Audio Tapes or shooting on analog SLRs.  Beautiful, but boutique.

When it comes to generative music, I think the scene will split – but not along the lines of “authentic vs. artificial.”  The split will be between artists who build a compelling personal brand and those who don’t.  That’s already how the game works today.  If you’re a great storyteller, if you know how to use social media, if you can light up a stage, you’ll find your audience.  If your “handmade” process is part of your story – awesome, own it.  But they won’t leave you, if it’s not, as no one walks out of a movie, just because CGI was used.  They stay if the story is good.

However, guys: music is more than success.

When I sit down at a piano, or pick up a guitar, or play a harp and feel the vibration, the haptics, the resonance of real sound, it’s magic.  It’s peace.  It’s heaven on earth.
And no AI will ever take that away from you.

SBS:  My own biggest concern with AI at the present, is one that simply revolves around the future of music…and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about any of this.  As I understand it, all AI is currently capable of doing is achieved by learning from what we’ve already done in the past.  Obviously in a case like your album City Bops, where the music was intended to echo that of a throwback era, that’s a huge advantage to be able to draw from an endless well of knowledge, songs, and artists that have probably already come and gone with their own moments in music’s history – so that’s an example of where AI is extremely useful, in my opinion.  Where I wonder about things like this, where a machine is only able to absorb what’s done in the past, is how does that translate to doing something new in the future?  Sure the process itself is new, but how could the resulting sounds & songs be if it’s all based on stuff already released in the past?  Is that the next iteration of AI?  Could there be a series of prompts and inputs that would produce something altogether different than we’ve ever heard before?  Is it just as fair to say that human beings have already run out of ideas in terms of what that next thing would be too?  Like, maybe we’ve already reached the limit of how much uniqueness there can be within music, and from here on in, it’s always going to be derivative in some way, shape, or form?  I guess what I’m asking is, beyond the process itself, is AI going to be able to contribute something new to the future of how music sounds?

Fred:  After actively experiencing contemporary music for roughly three decades, I can say with some confidence: not only have we hit the limit of uniqueness in mainstream music – we may have already scraped the bottom of the creativity barrel.

And no, that’s not just a rant from someone turning 40 this month.  😉  That’s backed by data.

For example:

• The percentage of Billboard number-one hits with key changes used to be between 20–30% for decades.  Now?  It’s close to zero.
• The average song length keeps shrinking.  In this century, we’ve lost almost a minute!  Largely thanks to the influence of streaming platforms and TikTok.
• Bands have virtually disappeared from the charts.  The collaborative clash of multiple creative minds has been replaced by the solitary solo act, with a team of producers behind the curtain.

It seems like the quirkiness, unpredictability, and emotional range of Pop music have already been squeezed out – long before AI even entered the room.

So, to your question: No, I don’t see AI as the grave digger of creativity.  I sincerely hope it becomes its catalyst.  Because now, maybe for the first time in history, any human being, regardless of musical training, can bring their unique perspective into the creative process.

And if that helps break the rigid corset of the mainstream, then I say: bring it on!

And even if we’ve reached the limits of our creative potential, I’m convinced AI will eventually develop things we can’t even imagine yet.  And, in the end, maybe exactly what music needs.

SBS:  Obviously everything has its own evolutionary speed, and theoretically, everything improves or refines itself as it goes forward.  AI would be no different than anything else in that regard, I assume.  Shake your crystal ball for us Fred – how do you see things getting better with AI?  What will improve?  I made a comment or two on how similarities within AI-based music are likely not even the fault of AI itself, but likely the result of human-based limitations, or how we’re all still getting used to AI as a tool that can be used in what we create.  As in, I know that we’ll get better in how we use it too.  As strange as it might seem to some out there, there’s a relationship that needs to be formed with AI to get the best out of it I’d reckon…and it’s likely that same combination between humankind and machine that will find a way for it to break through to that next level and produce something we’ve never even heard.  What’s key in understanding the relationship between us and AI, and how we can both make each other better at what we do? At the rapid rate of AI’s progress, how long do you think it will take before we’re all laughing about how basic the technology we were using was when it all first became mainstream?  Are we years away from AI’s next evolution or is it developing at a rate much quicker than we can grasp?

Fred:  You’re absolutely right – there is a relationship that needs to be built between us and AI.  And like in any relationship, the results depend on how well we communicate, how honest we are, and how much time we invest in understanding each other.

Right now, we’re still in that awkward “getting to know each other” phase.  AI tools are powerful, yes, but they’re also extremely literal.  They don’t understand what we mean – they interpret what we say.  So the key, I think, is learning how to speak “machine.”  The more fluently we can do that, the more expressive and original the results will become.

And I completely agree with your observation: many of the early limitations we hear in AI music aren’t because of the AI itself, they’re a reflection of how limited we humans still are in using it.

As for the timeline, let’s just say: if we could hear a song created by AI five years from now using tools that don’t even exist yet, we’d probably laugh at how clunky, predictable, or flat City Bops sounds in comparison.  😀  And that’s fine!  That’s the beauty of progress.  And I don’t think we’re decades away.  I think we’re looking at 2-3 years, before we see a serious leap in quality and control.  Especially once emotional intelligence and generative refinement improve.

But no matter how fast the tech evolves, what will always matter is this:
The better we become at communicating our inner world, the better AI will reflect it back.

SBS:  Let’s broaden things out away from City Bops for a moment here, because you’re a man that’s always got something new on the go, and have been for as long as I’ve known ya Fred.  Tell us about the bigger picture.  How does the use of AI play a role in what you have planned for the future of Vanterra Arts?  Is it going to be specifically for music?  Video games?  Other stuff?  What does the future hold for you at VA, and how will AI be able to help assist you with your goals and your vision for the company?

Fred:  At this point, Vanterra Arts isn’t really a company with business goals anymore – it’s become my personal AI playground, and honestly, I love it that way.

With all the new tools and wild possibilities out there, I realized I needed a safe space where I could just go a bit crazy and experiment freely.  On vanterraarts.com, you’ll already find some of that – like long-form blog posts on super niche topics like Noise Rock or completely unhinged AI-generated images, like Beethoven with shades, a gold chain, and a pile of cash. ^^

Whatever weird, wonderful things AI throws at me – I toss them into the VA black box and see what comes out the other side. 🙂

However, I guess, music will always be at the core of what I do.  With tools like Suno AI, I suddenly have a whole band at my fingertips: virtual musicians playing instruments I can’t (there are still a few, believe it or not!), and even singing – which I really can’t.  😀

I’ve shown what I can do on my own (with albums like Mythanien and Waikiki Synth, and even an AI-free fantasy novel that’s in the works), but now, with AI, I can finally go even further and make the things I couldn’t do on my own before.

Like Rock music!  I’ve always been a huge admirer of Nu Metal – you know, Limp Bizkit, KoRn, Spineshank, Powerman 5000 – but as a piano guy working solo in my home studio, that was a genre that always felt out of reach, until now.  So, who knows…maybe Vanterra Arts will come back next with a Nu Nu Metal album.  🙂

SBS:  As I understand it, and again, please correct me if I’m wrong – you’ve planned on keeping things distinguished between what you create as Fred Vanterra, and what you’re doing with Vanterra Arts?  Like City Bops for example – that was the first release on Vanterra Arts, and not something posted up on your personal page at Spotify for your solo music.  What makes you feel like there’s a need to draw a line between the two?  Is the stuff at the Fred Vanterra page always going to be pure, unfiltered Fred?  Is the stuff at Vanterra Arts always going to be AI-based?  You get where I’m going with this question I’m sure – but what would be the reasons to separate the two from each other at all?  I guess everything is together on your main site at Vanterra Arts…so there’s that.  But I’m curious as to why you chose to break it down further at sites like Spotify.  Even on your main site, you’ve still got your music listed as ‘Handmade’ and ‘AI made’ so that we know which is which.  What is it that makes making the distinction important to you?  We’re already at a point where people wouldn’t be able to tell if the music they’re listening to was AI-based or not (trust me!), so why tell them at all?  What makes that important information they should have?  Is it like nutritional aspects of what we consume?  Not something that everyone needs to know, but like…ethical for us to communicate in some kind of moral and responsible transparency?  What’s the perceived advantage for you in having two different kinds of creative outlets?

Fred:  Yes.  For me, it’s really all about transparency.  As City Bops hopefully proves, I don’t have any problem at all working with AI and I have no issue talking openly and positively about the creative collaboration it offers.  But I also know not everyone feels that way yet.

So this dividing line between Fred Vanterra and Vanterra Arts?  It’s not necessarily something I need, it’s more for the people out there who might wonder:

“Did he write this himself?”
“Was this AI-generated?”
“Is this handmade or machine-made?”

I don’t want to be misunderstood as just “that AI guy,” or as someone who can’t play a real instrument or write a song on his own.  So even though the line will become even harder to define in the future, I think it’s still meaningful for now, especially in other areas of my creative life.  Take writing, for example.  I’m currently in the final stages of finishing my fantasy novel Mythanien (yes, soundtrack first, novel second. ^^) and I want the world to know, with full confidence, that every single sentence of that book was written by me.

You know, in 2025, every new writer is under suspicion of having used AI, right?  So, for me, this isn’t about gatekeeping or clinging to purity, it’s about honesty, especially when AI and human creativity are overlapping more than ever.

That’s why I’ve chosen the path of full disclosure: If I’ve used AI, I’ll say so.  If it’s 100% handmade, I’ll say that too.  I just want to be honest with everyone who consumes my work: with future publishers, with collaborators…with you.  And honestly?  Also, with myself.

SBS:  You mentioned something to me about a new “completely handmade and AI-free” album coming up.  So!  I think the obvious question is, what made you decide to go in the opposite direction and not make another AI-based record right away?  If the technology is nothing but a good thing & can help us, then wouldn’t we all want to keep on using it?  Or is it as simple as the fact that every project we ever take on can be different, and we have the ability to choose how things get made…like how some bands still decide to record to tape in an analog style, rather than digital?  Everything in moderation, including moderation?  What else can you tell us about your upcoming record, and when do we get to hear it?

Fred:  Yes, great question!  We’ve already talked about Mythanien, Waikiki Synth, Gold (Miner), City Bops, even the Mythanien novel…but we haven’t said a single word yet about my next baby: Tutti.

Tutti will be a completely handmade and AI-free Classical album, and it goes far beyond the solo piano work I did on Mythanien.  This time, I’m going full orchestral mode: brass, strings, woodwinds, percussion – hence the title, Tutti, the Italian term for “everyone plays.”

Every track will be composed by me, played by me (well, virtual instruments, but 100% human-controlled), and mixed and mastered by me using software that doesn’t rely on AI (yet).  Old school.  Hands-on.

Why?  Because I want to evolve as an artist in every direction: I don’t only want to become a better AI operator, but also a better composer.  A better musician.  A better technician.

If I were to rely solely on AI from now on, I’d be abandoning all the other skills I’ve spent years building.  But if I went fully “pure” and avoided AI out of principle, I’d miss out on one of the most empowering creative tools of our time.  So, I’ve chosen to do both: human-made projects and AI-fueled experiments.

That’s my way I guess: other artists can fight the “AI vs. Human” battle if they want to – I just want to create.  🙂

SBS:  My man!  It’s always great to talk with you Fred, and you’ve got nothing but my respect my friend.  You’re a genuine creative, you’re a true innovator, and believe it or not, I fully salute your embrace of technology in all the ways that you have.  I’m always going to be interested in what you’re up to next, because you put so much thought and passion into all that you do.  I respect all that at the end of the day, always.  Sadly…as much as I wish I could ask a million more questions to you right now about music, AI, and all its future implications, all good things have to come to an end I suppose.  You’ve reached the most predictable spot of our interviews here – the ol’ SBS Open Floor, where you can say anything else that you’d like to tell the people out there, just like the last time we interviewed ya!  What can I say…I’m not as creative as the guests that grace our pages here lol…so I stick with what works to wrap things up.  It’s been nothing but a pleasure to talk with you again Fred, thank you for your time – the floor is yours!

Fred:  It’s been a pleasure – just like last time – and we definitely need to do this again once the next project is ready to launch.  Whether it’s a Classical handmade album, an AI-fueled Nu Metal record, or a fantasy novel…or maybe all three at once.  😀

Jer, I truly appreciate how you challenge not just me, but all of us, to think deeply about how we want to shape the future – with or without AI.  That kind of conversation is rare, and I’m grateful for it.

And to everyone reading:  Don’t be afraid of AI.  Get your hands dirty.  Explore it.  Play with it.  Then decide for yourself how much of it you want in your (creative) life.

Peace out!

Find out more about the music of Fred Vanterra and what he’s up to at Vanterra Arts by visiting the official website at:  https://vanterraarts.com

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